Where's that 3rd cap bonus for blasterboats?

No. You get another bonus when you lose the cap bonus. That makes 2. You don't get 3rd when blasterboats get 2.

By your logic, your laserboat gets a bonus to range. Remove scorch and we'll talk.

Or maybe boats are different. Winmatar may need a nerf, but that doesn't mean laserboats get a 3rd bonus so that it can pwn hybrids worse than they do now.

I agree with the OP, having a bonus to cap on amarr ships sucks when all that bonus does is to allow those weapons to function normally, thus it is not a bonus.

How about reducing cap requirements on all lasers, I've never understood how beam lasers should even require cap in the first place as (if I remember my optical physics correctly) all a beam laser needs is a continuous source of power (this is represented in the PG requirements as posted in the weapon description). Pulse lasers are a little different in that they rapidly fire multiple times per shot and as such need short bursts of power which is where a capacitor is needed.

So I would say, no cap on all beam lasers at the very least and reduced cap requirements for the more damaging, but shorter range pulse lasers.

Glad your alt agrees with your main. Why don't we just give you hybrids instead of lasers? Problems solved? After all, blasters get "awsome tracking" and rails get... what do they get again? All for less cap. Sounds like the perfect weapons for you.

Yeah, laserboats clearly deserves a special 3rd bonus, and hybrid boats don't.

[quote=Commander Ted]

"omgwtfbbq range"

Lol, really? What do you call Scorch?

Damn those rails. Now those are clearly OP, aren't they? Why don't you use them?

The lack of a second bonus is balanced by the natural performance of lasers.
Honestly the Harbinger was fine before the patch and its equal if not a little better now.

Who cares about charts? There are so many factors that play into this chart, the Quality of the ships themselves isn't actually the most important.
Perhaps the harbinger isnt used as much because a lot of people have Drake skills from pve and minmatar are generally prefered for (solo) pvp? No idea but certainly possible.

The point is: i fly Harbinger(s) and I have used it in fleets meant for Hurricanes. The cap use of lasers isn't as much of a problem as you say it is.

Asking for a 3rd bonus, which would throw balance out the window, is not a good way to go.

I think an important part of what everyone seems to be forgetting is that lasers..

...have instant ammo switching and have literally unlimited ammo unless you're using T2/faction crystals which still take damage pretty slowly.

I wish my projectile weapons and my missile bays (I fly Minmatar, so naturally I have both) could change ammo half as fast as lasers can change crystals.

No, really. You can fire an awful lot of times with those faction/T2 crystals before they break. Crystals take up nearly no space in the cargo, compared to the amount of ammo you'd need to make the same number of shots with any other gun. Lasers have a lot of benefits, but they're balanced by drawbacks and you're either failing or refusing to see the benefits because all you're interested in are the drawbacks.

Regarding the "make lasers take less cap and remove the cap bonus", I'm not going to touch that specifically but I do want to point out that some Amarr ships don't get a cap bonus to lasers, instead getting RoF and damage bonuses, or range and damage, or tracking and damage. The argument could possibly be made that cap-bonused ships are intended to more easily allow for active armor tanking as opposed to the ships without the cap bonus being intended mainly for passive armor tanking.

As long as my myrm can get a blaster bonus, my brutix a tracking bonus, and my drake can get an omni missile damage increase and a rate of fire boost

Or the harbinger could just get a useful bonus to replace it's current one.

Which means a different bonus (I've never flown amarr so I don't know what bonus should go in it's place) would fix that

I'm saying that if it gets another bonus so should every other bc

So if it's barely a bonus, the bonus should be change but you say that the cap bonus is needed which contradicts your argument

If it's bonuses are working that means it doesn't need a new one

Well **** you too, that just shows that the bonus is lower than where it should be since you just stated it's too small tp make a difference.

Scorch suck? Why don't you crosstrain to hybrids?

Then fit cap mods, ask for the bonus to get changed and stop complaining

The Harbie has issues itself, it's a mediocre ship and didn't get enough change to give it a role anywhere.

But that doesn't affect the laser issue in general, which is really the crux of the thread, people are getting tied down on this 'Third bonus for harbies' thing and not looking at fixing the real problem.

If you fold the 50% ship bonus into Lasers themselves, LASERS STILL USE THE MOST CAP OF ANY WEAPONS.
Bolded to make the point. They still use significantly more cap than the equivilent Hybrids while at -50% cap use.

So the 'bonus' should be folded into the weapon. Maybe at only 40% to reflect the fact a lot of people only train ships to lvl 4, while 5 is 'specialisation'. That then frees up a 'bonus' (Which isn't a bonus since it is required to use lasers on any ship which isn't pirate, you can 'just' use lasers on the pirate ships, but since they have half the guns for the same DPS, they have a 50% cap reduction bonus already in that) that can actually be something interesting.
As well as allowing ships like the Maller & Abbadon to be viable as laser ships without capping out or requiring twin cap boosters just to shoot guns.

stuff

Scorch is insanely powerful, but even without it, lasers still are superior to any other weapon, even T2, for a wide range, except maybe missiles. The problem you may have is capacitor (with supposedly low skills, even more so) because of the time it will take to kill the ennemy without scorch dps.

And blasters have the same problem : without null, *any* ship will be able to kite you.

But that's more a problem of skill difference than balance.

No, no they don't. Amarr ships have BETTER capacitor than minmatar ships mostly, when you consider running weapons, propulsion mods, tackle, some sort of tank. This is not only through a capacitor bonus, but also dramatically larger base cap amounts and faster regen. Not only are many minmatar ships short on capacitor (Vagabond, Cynabal, Sleipnir) for sustained engagements where their amarrian counterparts aren't, but Amarrian ships have many advantages to their weapons, that projectiles do not, including higher tracking, DRAMATICALLY better damage projection, longer range, higher dps, super fast reloading/crystal swapping.

So no, I strongly disagree. The capacitor bonus IS a very good bonus.

I think in this case, as with what they say with the drake tank opedness. We need to look at the mods, not the ship. Maybe weapons need a re-balance, not the ship. Just saying.

you dont remember your physics correctly.